post Re: Can't log in on pithos in Desktop

Can't Log In on Pithos

pendragyn — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:39:14 GMT

Tried listening today (June 15 2021) using the Linux application "Pithos" but I get an error about incorrect login information. I haven't changed it so what happened?

The only reason I've stuck with Pandora is because of the Pithos app and if it's going to be blocked I don't see any point in staying subscribed.

ETA: My first post was very abrupt so I thought I'd clarify. I love Pandora and have been using it for almost 20 years at this point, and was subscribed for over a decade, until this. The main reason why I loved it was that they allowed an open-source Linux app, letting me listen without a browser open, letting me use the interactive keys on my keyboard to pause or skip and control the volume. Can't get that in the browser, but since it's not cost effective to make a supported Linux app, that left me, who isn't using windows, mac, or android without a viable, accessible, alternative, so...

But maybe this was all just a bug or miscommunication or something and everything will get fixed. 🙂

Re: Can't log in on pithos

rwdougla — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 13:35:15 GMT

Likewise, Pithos stopped working for me yesterday. There is a github issue for pithos now opened, which seems to indicate that there was something introduced via Pandora: https://github.com/pithos/pithos/issues/654

Can someone please advise on what has changed and when we should expect it to be resolved?

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

AlyssaPandora — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:29:15 GMT

Hi, @pendragyn @rwdougla. 👋

Nice to see you around the community space.

Pithos is an unauthorized third-party application, and using it is a violation of our Terms of Use. You can view our Terms of Use here. Additionally, we don't have a public API available. We have partnered with a number of companies to develop Pandora-enabled consumer devices, but we generally do not make Pandora available through other sites and applications. We also don't license the Music Genome directly to third parties. Pithos is not affiliated with Pandora Media, Inc.

You can stream Pandora for free at our website.

You can also use our Pandora Desktop application: Installing the Pandora Desktop App

@pendragyn If you're receiving that error message about your password, we can help reset it to ensure that you're able to log into your account. I would recommend using our website to login to see if you receive the same error. This will let us know if the issue is specific to the Pithos client rather than your account.

Let me know. Hope this information is helpful. 🎧

Re: Can't log in on pithos

clarkevans — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:29:48 GMT

> Pithos is an unauthorized third-party application, and is a violation of our Terms of Use.

I've been a Pandora customer for probably close to a decade now, and I was one of your very first subscribers and have been an active advocate on your organization's behalf. Use of Pandora though the native Ubuntu application is what makes your service valuable to me. That you've decided not to support an active community, that promoted your service to our friends and colleagues is, to say the very least, disappointing.

Instead of a blanket ban on 3rd party clients, would you please reconsider and think about what business problem you're solving and how Pandora enthusiasts could comply with your requirements?

Re: Can't log in on pithos

AlyssaPandora — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:33:26 GMT

@clarkevans Thanks very much for your feedback and for posting on the Pandora Community. Rest assured that your voice has been heard. I've noted your thoughts about this for our product team to consider as other listeners have mentioned this recently.

Pandora on Devices:

Pandora is available for use on our website, desktop app, and other supported devices.

A list of those devices can be found here: Pandora Everywhere
Supported browsers and minimum web specifications are posted in this thread: Web Minimum Specifications

Ubuntu + Linux:

Unfortunately, there are far more Linux distributions and configurations than we have the capacity to test, so we do not officially support the use of Pandora on Linux clients. However, Pandora is an HTML5 application, so it should work reasonably well on most up-to-date Linux desktop systems without a 3rd party app.

For help with your managing your subscription options, our User Support team can be reached here.

Re: Can't log in on pithos

clarkevans — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:00:47 GMT

Alyssa, I don't want to use an HTML5 application. I prefer the PainoBar command line interface or a simpler interface like Pithos, as these better integrate with my workflow. What business problem does this change solve? It seems unnecessarily hostile to the very community that enthusiastically adopted your services when it mattered the most. Of course you can do as you wish, however, Pandora may want consider technology enthusiasts as a community that carries its own distinct advantages for accommodating. Instead of viewing API based access as a burden, perhaps consider it to be an opportunity for entrepreneurial integrations. Thank you for listening.

Re: Can't log in on pithos

rwdougla — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:11:41 GMT

While I appreciate the sentiment of the "there are so many linux distros" bit, Pithos has, with relatively little effort, managed it. You should be aware that this sort of blanket response feels disingenuous at the least, and hostile at worst. A blanket response of "we dont support it, so we will refuse to let the community support it" is disappointing to hear. Pandora has the power, if it doesnt want to put effort into a Linux client, to simply bless Pithos.

I sincerely hope Pandora will reconsider its position on the matter. Like clarkevans, I've been a subscriber for over a decade and this is the first time I've had any issue. While the service is good, it's only ever needed to be "good enough". I've not, personally, needed anything too outrageous, just an experience that doesnt introduce more hassle in my life. That momentum is what has kept me a subscriber. That I've had to create a community account to login after a decade speaks volumes about the quality of Pandora's historical policy. It also should indicate how much of a degradation this is to the user experience for folks such as myself.

This is seriously troubling without any explanation or justification as to why this breakage occurred.

Re: Can't log in on pithos

thehero — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:39:58 GMT

I've been a paying Pandora user for over a decade and used Pithos the entire time. The fact that Pandora decided to kill all third party "unauthorized" applications is tone def and asinine.

We don't want to run a web browser the entire time to use Pandora, and we don't want to install a terrible Pandora app like the old Adobe Air app.

@AlyssaPandoraif this is issue is "Solved" should we just cancel our accounts?

Re: Can't log in on pithos

jam01 — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:46:24 GMT

Between the subpar Roku app and now losing Pithos and no official Linux alternative... I guess I'll have to consider a switch to Spotify. Agh.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

clarkevans — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:10:07 GMT

@thehero: Canceling our accounts is an inconsequential a blip to Pandora, as a few hundred early adopters and technical enthusiasts won't even register on their monthly subscription statistics. This is sort of different, we're the ones who boosted Pandora when it was in its infancy, and for that we sort of expect some minor deference and accommodation.

@AlyssaPandora: You might frame this issue to your executives differently -- our community sets trends and builds new things. Those trends and new things can advance Pandora's business, or advance efforts that will directly compete with Pandora. It's this second order reason why Pandora may wish to work with our community to ensure we have adequate support for API integrations.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

MajorHayes — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:42:03 GMT

Can we get some clarification from Pandora if blocking third-party clients was intentional or not?

As far as, "Pithos is an unauthorized third-party application, and using it is a violation of our Terms of Use.", then what's the purpose of https://developer.pandora.com/docs/overview/introduction/ ?

> As a developer you want to know all the ways your app can interact with Pandora, not only finding and playing music, but also what the full set of API services are and what they can offer. And you want to learn to do this as quickly as possible.

> The Pandora developer portal is a platform which contains all the necessary documentation, tools, and services needed to get an approved developer set up to start building their app, interacting with Pandora’s rich resources of music and metadata by employing an exciting array of API services.

You explicitly support third-party developers to interact with Pandora via API, so I don't see how they can be a violation of the Terms of Service.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

bkw — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:12:35 GMT

Pandora, it's very simple, If I can't continue to use Pithos, Pianobar and Pandoroid, then I will cancel my 15+ year old account. How much have I paid Pandora over that many years?
Simple as that. I was happy to pay, every month, for all those years. Now I'm not. Your choice.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

bkw — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:25:22 GMT

Why is this marked "Solved"? I still can't log in with any of the clients I've been using for over 10 years.

Re: Can't log in on pithos

pendragyn — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:19:10 GMT

Funnily enough, Pithos is an "unauthorized third-party application" that has been around for years at this point, without ever being an issue before now. So, no, this is not helpful, nor is my situation resolved.

Also, as I wrote, I am on Linux, specifically Kubuntu 16.4 I think, so no, I can not use the windows or mac applications, as I am not using either of those operating systems.

If I wanted to use the browser to listen to Pandora, I would have, so clearly, that is not a solution that works for me either.

My login information is fine, as I am here logged in and filing this complaint. I understand this is your job, and you have limited allowed responses, and that's fine, but they don't solve my issue.

They don't even really answer the question, which is: why are third party applications SUDDENLY being blocked? They've been out there, readily available and allowed, for years. Again, I understand this might not be something you can answer, but maybe you can.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

thehero — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:58:04 GMT

It appears Pithos is working again....

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

BeepDog — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:38:49 GMT

I too am a pithos user, because up until recently, it was the only way I could have media key support on linux, where I spend 99.9% of my time. Additionally, it makes volume control far more manageable than integrating it with everything else in my browser.

I also pay for the service.

I don't want to lose Pandora's music discovery, but if it's only going to work in a browser, it will probably push me away from the service.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

BeepDog — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:56:06 GMT

Rant time, just a wee bit: the statement of "it's too hard to support multiple desktop applications" is kinda bogus.

It's too hard to support the ecosystem you chose that only works on OSX and Windows. There are myriad multiplatform GUI frameworks at this point. Even an electron app would work, since it's just HTML5 in a box.

I really think it'd go a long way towards community involvement if you could take a bit of a refactoring approach to your apps, and deliver them in a way that is cross platform. It's completely possible, and it might be expensive up front, but only *once*. It might not be a huge community, but it's a passionate one. (and tbh, it is growing)

You just need to make different decisions, ones that allow you the flexibility. It's truly not that hard with modern software, now days.

I hope ya'll could do this.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

bkw — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:07:02 GMT

Pianobar, Pithos, Pandoroid all working again.

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

jharmison — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 12:07:26 GMT

I'd like to get some clarification on some of this. I've been a paying Pandora subscriber for a pretty long time, though not the 20-years quoted by some. I think around ten? You linked to the Terms of Use, which I'll admit I haven't read in quite some time of course. Particularly concerning to me is this passage that you reference:

Any access or use of our Services through an application, service, or method provided by a party other than Pandora or one of our licensed partners is strictly prohibited, outside the scope of the license granted herein, and may subject your account to termination and other legal action.

Is there a possibility that this clause could be changed? I don't think it's a particular burden on Pandora to simply continue supporting the API that you've been supporting all of this time. Or, if you have a strong business reason to change it (which I would understand), to expose some public documentation on the changes to enable the Open Source community to adapt to your change. I don't think you need to explicitly support Open Source clients, but I think being actively hostile to them is... probably not a take I want to continue supporting through my subscription.

I realize that this is a bigger issue than "some Linux nerds had no Pandora client for a day." I would like to know if there's a plan to implement bigger changes after this feedback than turning these apparently deprecated interfaces back on.

I prefer Pandora over Spotify for a number of reasons, and some of them are referenced above, but if Open Source clients on my operating system of choice (instead of the inefficient and inconvenient browser interface) could subject me to legal action, I see no reason to continue to place myself in legal jeopardy at my own expense.

On a bit of further reflection, I've gone ahead and cancelled my subscription. Thanks for the years of good recommendations. 🙂

mod edit: format

Re: Can't Log In on Pithos

bkw — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 21:45:58 GMT

Why the browser isn't good enough.

BrowserPithosPianobar