That's bizarre, I just looked up that track and listened to it, and don't recall ever hearing it; it's an obviously jazz version of a movement from Brahms 3rd Symphony. I wouldn't have added that intentionally so I must have done it by mistake somehow. Thanks for ferreting that out.
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new imagesHi, I'd like to reopen this discussion. I followed the advice to remove those song seeds with Andre Previn conducting, and the problem got much better. However, I've still had several jazz tracks pop into the classical station, just not as often, and I wonder if you can also identify what cause these to occur: 2/21/23, 6:11 pm Grooveyard by Phineas Newborn Jr. Trio 2/28/23, 12:42 pm, Song for my Father by David Benoit 3/3/23, 12:21 am, I Couldn't Sleep a Wink Last Night by Oscar Peterson
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Thanks Adam, this is really interesting, and both shows the solution and points out a problem for Pandora. I had already gone through to check for thumbed up stations on the classical station list that could be causing problems, and did find one or two accidentally thumbed up stations and removed them a while ago (presumably Claude Bolling was one because I wouldn't have intentionally called that classical). But Andre Previn presents a problem for Pandora in general that I hope you can fix. I'm impressed that you were able to track this cause down, and I'll remove those thumbs up, but please pass along to those who work on the algorithms that Andre Previn is primarily known as one of the great classical music orchestra conductors (LA Philharmonic, London Symphony Orchestra, Royal Philharmonic, etc.). He also writes and performs jazz, and every now and then, an Andre Previn jazz track would show up on the classical station and it was entirely understandable, and I would thumb it down. But those various tracks that you listed, movements of symphonies "by" Andre Previn, are not by him at all; they are orchestra performances of classical music conducted by Previn. Classical music is not Pandora's strong point, but I strongly encourage you folks to work with your algorithms to decouple music WRITTEN BY Andre Previn from music CONDUCTED BY Andre Previn. You just need to make sure Previn is listed in the conductor field in your metadata for his classical performances, and in the composer field for his jazz stuff. "Artist" doesn't really have a clear meaning in this case. Hope that helps!
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Wednesday night, 2/15/23: I'm curious is something was changed as a result of my reports over the last few days, because I've been listening to my classical station for several hours and no jazz tracks have been played today.
ok, ignore that; I was curious and started skipping ahead and did encounter one jazz track, although it's been less common than for the past several days.
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Here's one more piece of potentially useful info: I usually play my classical station directly in the Pandora mobile app and stream to my home Sonos speakers, but it's also possible to play Pandora directly from the Sonos app. I tried that this morning and it only took 3 or 4 tracks for a jazz track to show up: today 2/13/23, 12:32 pm PST, Todd Hildreth Trio, The Nearness Of You. I'm reporting that here since it was using the different app, and will stop reporting them for now; hopefully you can make sense of all this.
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now it is letting me upload an image
Here's another one, from a little while ago. Still listening to my own custom Classical station with no special modes, this one was 11:05 pm, 2/11/23. This one was Sophisticated Lady by Andrew Hill. Again, two screenshots are attached of it playing and then of me having given it the thumbs down. -Matt
I see my original response to you is reflected in this conversation, but subsequently replied by e-mail with several other examples that hit over the following day and I don't see any of those here. I will fill those in directly in this website in just a little while. On Feb 11, 2023, at 11:56 PM, Springer, Matt > wrote: (I sent this earlier today but just realized it went to a "no-reply" address; this should be better) I have not listen to that station much recently, but I've been listening this afternoon and it did not take long for the problem to occur. As you can see in the attached screenshots, it's the Andrea Pozza Trio, These Foolish Things, Saturday, February 11, 2:03 PM, in my own created classical station not in any particular mode, just normal. I have attached two screenshots, one while it was playing and one after I gave it the thumbs down. I should point out that this particular track is jazzy solo piano that is not quite as obviously jazz as when it usually happens, when it's absolute main stream typical jazz combo music or someone obvious like Oscar Peterson, but I will continue to send these as they occur.
Here's a slightly edited compilation of all of the reports over the weekend that were done via e-mail, of which only the first one registered here. There are 6 of them listed here in chronological order. I attached the screenshots in pairs, before and after thumbing down, in my original messages, but this website is not allowing me to insert an image here; it says I do not have permission to upload images. How can I get them to you?
Example #1: I have not listen to that station much recently, but I've been listening this afternoon and it did not take long for the problem to occur. As you can see in the attached screenshots, it's the Andrea Pozza Trio, These Foolish Things, Saturday, February 11, 2:03 PM, in my own created classical station not in any particular mode, just normal. I have attached two screenshots, one while it was playing and one after I gave it the thumbs down. I should point out that this particular track is jazzy solo piano that is not quite as obviously jazz as when it usually happens, when it's absolute main stream typical jazz combo music or someone obvious like Oscar Peterson, but I will continue to send these as they occur.
Example #2: Here's another one, from a little while ago. Still listening to my own custom Classical station with no special modes, this one was 11:05 pm, 2/11/23. This one was Sophisticated Lady by Andrew Hill. Again, two screenshots are attached of it playing and then of me having given it the thumbs down.
Example #3: Here's another one that just occurred; this one is about as obviously jazz as one can imagine. Still my own custom Classical station in no special mode, 1:42 pm (these are all PST), 2/12/23, Steve Allee Trio, Somewhere. Again, screenshots are attached of when it started playing and after I thumbed it down.
Example #4: Another one, this time a jazz guitar combo. I GUESS it could be mistaken for something a tiny bit similar to classical guitar, but it's a real stretch! It's Joe Pass, whom Wikipedia describes as "...was an American jazz guitarist. Pass is well known for his work stemming from numerous collaborations with pianist Oscar Peterson and vocalist Ella Fitzgerald, and is often esteemed as one of the most notable jazz guitarists of the 20th century." Body And Soul is the title. 2/12/23, 6:41 pm PST, my Classical station with no special modes, two screenshots attached.
Example #5: aaaaaand again, this time it's Take Five from Dave Brubeck, one of the most recognizable jazz hits in history, playing on my Classical station with no special modes, 2/12/23, 7:06 pm PST. Screen shots attached. I think I can probably stop now; the problem has been very clearly and obviously demonstrated. What is wrong and how can it be fixed?
Example #6: I know I said I was finished, but this one came up so soon after the last one that I'm including it also, and here's the problem: it's happening more and more often. The more I thumb-down jazz tracks in my classical station, the more jazz tracks the station tries to play. It's backwards. This is Bill Charlap Trio, Dream, an obvious jazz combo track. 2/12/23, 7:32 pm PST, classical station with no special mode, screen shots attached again. (This is really getting ridiculous.)
(And I actually got another one after that but decided to stop submitted them at that point.)
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Jazz music plays in my classical station
Pandora no longer understands the difference between classical and jazz?
This didn't used to happen, but for the last several months, Pandora keeps shoving jazz tracks at me when in my Classical station. I like jazz also but I have my own jazz station for that. Even though I have intentionally not thumbed up any Gershwin or other classical composers who are jazzy, and I keep thumbing down the jazz tracks, Pandora won't give up. In fact, it seems the more jazz tracks I give a thumbs down, the more frequently the classical station starts playing jazz. And it's not hybrid-sounding music; it's pure combo jazz or jazz piano like Oscar Peterson. I'm batting away several a day; how do I get it to stop? (This should be basic music genre recognition from Pandora's inception.)
(Please don't suggest the classical full performances station, hardly any of the tracks are full performances and the last time I tried it, I could not customize the station nearly as well as normal stations.)
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Right, I use "I'm tired of this track" all the time. I was just thinking that it would be a useful feature to be able to say globally that I don't mind things I like being repeated a couple of times a day or I don't want them to be repeated within the same week, etc. Thanks.
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Thanks, some comments: First, the solution to the problem of longer individual movements and pieces being divided into multiple tracks and you being prohibited from playing multiple tracks has a simple solution that I suggested: avoid those performances in the first place. I know from experience with Pandora that for each performance that splits pieces into fragments, there are other performances of the same piece that keep them intact. I just went through the Mahler symphonies last night, searching for them in Pandora "add variety" with Apple Music open in a different window so that I could view which performances were subdivided, and removed any seed pieces from my classical station that were subdivided, replacing them with recordings of intact pieces. Similarly, Pandora content includes for full recordings of Appalachian Spring and Jupiter, and recordings of fragments of those pieces. The problem will go away if you curate your offerings in a way that rejects the ones that are fragments. I am pretty confident that none of your listeners want to listen to fragments of music that just stop suddenly in the middle. By the way, the complete classical performances station was my solution for a while but I gave up, because only rarely is a complete piece played despite the name, and the station is really annoying because while it takes thumbs up and thumbs down, it doesn't take seeds/suggestions like regular stations do, and despite hundreds of thumbed up pieces, it fixates on about 20 of them and plays them over and over again, requiring frequent "I'm tired of this track" clicks but doesn't take suggestions for diversifying content. And I tried Premium in the past and downgraded because it was over bloated and required too complex of a navigation, and the interface that surrounded cover art with a field of the cover's predominant color ruined the aesthetic intent of the cover art. Haven't checked it out recently but I want something that just works without me having to put in too much effort and lets me see the cover design the way the artist intended.
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Most classical pieces are entire individual tracks, or individual movements are entire individual tracks. e.g., a symphony in several movements would have one track per movement. However, some long pieces like Appalachian Spring, or several Mahler Symphony movements, are long enough that some recordings have the individual pieces/movements split into subtracks. Pandora does not recognize the several tracks that comprise a single movement; rather, it just plays individual tracks (usually the first one in that multi-track movement). It's awful; a Mahler symphony movement will start playing and all of a sudden in the middle, bam!, you're listening to the beginning of a totally different piece. Some performances have intact movements and others don't. Pandora should only choose recordings in which movements or individual pieces are not subdivided, to prevent this from happening. If there is not a realistic algorithm to do this, then some human should curate the collection and remove recordings that are in subdivided tracks. (I've also heard Jupiter from The Planets start in the middle of the piece, at the slow section.)
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It would be nice if there was a setting to tell Pandora how much time should elapse before it plays the same piece again. Example: once it has played a particular piece, the same piece would not play again for a day, 2 days, 1 week, etc.
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