NADRIP
Diamond in the Rough
| Created | Tier | Playlists | Stations | Thumbs | Music hours | Podcast hours |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 9/18/2023 | FREE | 4 | 8 | 18 | 223 | 0 |
Hi Mooney Astro Warm Leatherette Spectacular Starr. With curated playlists, there's two types - one type, usually playlists with less listeners, are independent, like you or I could make one. Actually I have one I made here on Pandora. And you could make one, a curated playlist, right here on Pandora (or on most other streaming sites). And people could find your curated playlist and discover songs on it, exactly as you describe. The problem is, unless you advertise, you probably won't have many listeners, because there's a LOT of playlists out there. So what you could try to get your song on a curated playlist with more listeners is to either a) find playlists that might be good fits for your songs, then see if you can figure out how to contact the curator based on the limited information you see on the playlist, or b) use a service like submithub to submit your songs to curators with reasonable-sized playlists for the cost of around $2 a pop (some less some more). There are also curated editorial playlists, run by staff at places like Pandora and other streaming sites, and some of the largest playlists are editorial playlists. One thing that wasn't obvious to me at first, and this comment is applying to Spotify and not necessarily Pandora, but I would expect it to be similar on Pandora, is that to get on any of the really big and important editorial playlists, one first needs to be considered (by Spotify any way) in the top 50%-60% of their most popular artists. And by popular, I mean artists with lots of high quality, recent streams. You can google "Spotify Popularity Index" to understand more. And to have an artist popularity index that high, one needs to have multiple really popular songs.
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For people in France, SoundExchange has reciprocal agreements with your local organizations ADAMI and SCPP. Similarly, other US organizations have reciprocal agreements, so you can simply join your local French organizations and receive all your payments. It may be a bit slower, like paid first to the US organizations (since Pandora is only in the US), then identified and transferred to reciprocal organizations. You can also join US organizations directly, but it's unnecessary (the W8 for instance is generated on the SoundExchange site if you figure it out.)
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First, different restaurant, bars, etc. will take different approaches. In some countries, ones that are small enough are allowed to play broadcast media, like a broadcast radio station, without any license as long as they don't charge for it. But this doesn't apply to streaming, like from Pandora. The most expensive approach is for these to negotiate with all the PROs for blanket licenses from each one, which allows basically any song to be played, but that's also the most expensive choice so usually only done when there's a lot of live bands playing. These restaurants could play your song, and it wouldn't have to be on any particular playlist, but they wouldn't need to play it from Pandora. A lot of bars and restaurants and stores negotiate with big music libraries, which I consider a type of sync, and which is cheaper. But in that case, the music libraries usually make the playlists. To get on these, you'd have to search for and submit your songs to various music libraries, and long and short you usually end up making a noticeable amount less than a comparable number of plays not from a music library, but you would hope to more than make up for that in volume. But in this case, the music libraries have tens of thousands of songs and make their own playlists to meet client needs, so your song might not play at all. And almost never would a specific bar or restaurant give input on specific songs, rather the overall mood of the playlist they want, things like that. Pandora has a service I think called cloud cover or something like that where if a restaurant obtains a specific type of membership, they can effectively be serviced by Pandora like how a music library would typically service a restaurant. It's sort of the same as the above, Pandora's editors who make the playlists can choose from basically all the songs on Pandora and restaurants and bars aren't giving feedback on specific songs. So, generally, if your song is super-popular and one of the top songs on Pandora, and it fits the mood or theme of a particular editorial playlist, then it has a much better chance of getting on a editorial playlist, including these that might be played by restaurants with this type of membership. As an additional pro tip, one thing that wasn't obvious to me at first, and this comment is applying to Spotify and not necessarily Pandora, but I would expect it to be similar on Pandora, is that to get on any of the really big and important editorial playlists, one first needs to be considered (by Spotify any way) in the top 50%-60% of their most popular artists. And by popular, I mean artists with lots of high quality, recent streams. You can google "Spotify Popularity Index" to understand more. And to have an artist popularity index that high, one needs to have multiple really popular songs.
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Hi Cindy, respectfully, can you state the reason why me owning those codes would make me more money? I'm confused because if it was explained to you so well, how are you not able to state the reason in a simple, concise way? I'm sure you're a great person. And I'm happy this is something you want to do for yourself. I'm not convinced, and actually I'm going to pass for myself unless you can give me a clear reason. But I believe everyone else should make their own decisions. I wish you luck!
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Hi Cindy, thanks for the further clarification. I understand Keith Kirk's area of expertise and work experience in the music industry, including Warner Brothers, was as a metadata analyst, and that's the area he normally focuses on. So, he has made the point many times that bad metadata makes it more challenging for people to get paid, at least delaying the payment process. I'm not aware of this particular claim by him that you state, of needing to own one's own UPC and ISRC codes, and, honestly, he's not an expert in these codes, he's an expert in metadata. So, one thing I'm wondering is if you perhaps misunderstood his comments about UPC and ISRC codes? For instance, UPC and ISRC codes are often included in metadata, and if one were to carelessly not include the correct codes in a song's metadata, I can see how he would point out that would make it much harder to get paid. As these codes are normally included in metadata, then "money follows the numbers" which is what you quoted him as saying. I have no doubt he would say that "it is really important to have these codes for your released songs" as part of the metadata. Please do this for me. After his speech, if you have a better understanding, please post an update! I'm super interested, and I'm sure others are too. If after his speech, you confirm that Keith believes that one can make more money owning one's own UPC/ISRC codes, and can give a cogent reason for that belief, please let me know! (He's been on many YouTube videos and podcasts in the past and I'm not aware of him ever making such a claim so to my knowledge this would be new.) On the other hand, if you perhaps misunderstood him, and he was more referring to you need to "own" your metadata, ie have correct metadata, part of which is having correct UPC and ISRC codes, then you can clarify that's what he was talking about (which is something he's actually said in the past.) Looking forward to your update!
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Oh, actually I have a related question! I understand that interactive streams (Pandora Plus + Pandora Premium) are paid to my distributor, and, in fact, I do get some Pandora payments to my distributor, but I also understand that non-interactive streams (Pandora Radio aka Pandora free / ad supported) are paid to SoundExchange. The problem is that I have never, ever gotten any payments from Pandora to SoundExchange. Why is that?
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Hi Cindy, I'm not an expert just a person trying to put music out and do the best for myself, like you. However, what I understand is that all the money will go to you that should go to you either way. If you leave our distributor, the UPC and IRSC codes will go with you to your new distributor/label. Now, this line of thinking came from an idea that what if someone hears the song and likes it and wants to contact you as owner to pay you for using it in some way? Then that person might look at the original UPC / ISRC codes to see who originally registered them, and would end up contacting your original distributor not you, and your original distributor might not be great about passing on the contact to you. So you might lose some mystical great opportunities. However, as the world has changed, today it's normal practice to let distributers handle UPC/ISRC codes and if someone wants to contact you, they will understand that most people let their distributor register those codes and probably won't even bother with that method. I mean, if I loved your song and wanted to pay you all sorts of money for it for some use, I would start with your artist social pages and website not with who registered your ISRC & UPC codes. In the 1800s when the publisher you talked to was working most of his career, they didn't have web pages everywhere - it was a different world - and many people from that old world aren't really connected online and don't really understand how much that world has changed. Registering those codes yourself, especially the UPC code, can be expensive, I've heard. So, as you say, every penny counts. Though as I say I'm not an expert and if someone can explain to me how exactly it is that by paying for my own original codes I will make more money I'm interested in hearing what you have to say and will reconsider my current position if what you have to say makes sense. But I really don't see a scenario in today's world where, say, a Disney executive hears my song and decides it would be perfect for an upcoming movie and then doesn't try to contact me through my artist socials, but instead looks up who registered the UPC/ISRC codes and tries to reach me through my distributor. That's just not how people operate anymore.
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I suspect most people at Pandora have weekends off, so Sat/Sun I wouldn't have expected anything to get done. Also in my experience you should have expectations like once they become aware of something it gets put into the queue, but there might be weeks of stuff ahead of you depending on how busy they currently are. For me personally it took months for my initial set up to get finished. But initial set up is what seems to take the longest and once that's done the rest is much faster.
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@sreynolds I just had a song added to AMP: Fresh Cuts and another Pandora editorial playlist. I didn't receive any email notification, but on my artist "insights" tab, a section for Programming Placements appeared near the top with both. If they tag you on social media, you should get a notification through instagram or whatever. You can also check the AMP links to see what they've posted. Hope this helps.
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@Mattcavemusic got a new release for your playlists https://pandora.app.link/zPtqjaFeVIb
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Hi YCiti, I tried to replicate what you described, not sure I understood it exactly, but basically everything I tested from my dashboard and artist page worked fine and without errors, using a 2021 MacBook Pro computer, os: Ventura 13.4
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Hi ChugKendall, please read this carefully as I hope you will find it helpful. I put myself in the position of Pandora and I was able to find you on songview, which is a searchable database that gives a combined view of all BMI and ASCAP works, and I take it you are KENDALL CHRISTOPHER DOUGLAS with ASCAP IPI# 00339188532. I also saw the two of you set up a publishing company (in name, anyway) for your songs called TIPTOE THROUGH THE TWO LIPS MUSIC PUBLISHING with ASCAP IPI# 00339175447. So, next I know that the MLC requires a valid publisher email by law and also the MLC maintains a publicly available searchable database. https://portal.themlc.com/search#work So, going to the MLC portal, I entered your publishing company name and also the names of your songs and I can't find you! Now I know that if I could find you there, I would therefore be able to provide for your a "publicly available website that displays the email address" of your official publisher, anyway, and Pandora could use that email to verify you. But a bigger problem is that you seem to be worried about your album cover not showing, but you're clearly not registered to collect all your royalties, so I think getting registered to collect all your royalties is a bigger problem. And, as a bonus, if you do so, you'll have a workaround for this problem. Let's talk about royalties that your songs receive from a streaming site like Pandora. Pandora is an excellent example, because streams from Pandora Premium accounts pay royalties in one way, and streams from Pandora Free accounts pay royalties in another way, so between them, you'll be fully covered for royalties all online streaming sites and all radio. Interactive streams are what Pandora Premium streams are, where users have specific control over what they hear. These forms of streams get three revenue streams: a) song public performance rights (performance royalties - which ASCAP will collect for you) b) song reproduction and distribution rights (mechanical royalties - which the MLC will collect for you https://portal.themlc.com - the MLC was set up by the US government as a nonprofit NGO that is officially responsible for collecting and paying out these royalties) c) sound recording reproduction and distribution rights (note this is for the sound recording not the song - which your distributor should be collecting. Now, you've indicated above you don't have a distributor. You should have one because you're losing a lot of earnings. Personally I use RouteNote. They allow me to distribute my songs online and they have no never charged me a penny, just instead they take a 15% share of all the revenues I generate that come through them. They do also have a plan I can switch to at any time where I can choose to pay fixed amounts and that plan is one of the best I've seen, but for now I'm better off with the zero cost plan I'm on. So, you could go from getting 0% to 85% of these royalties overnight, and RouteNote could fix your album artwork, as a bonus. Non-interactive streams are what Pandora Free streams are, which are much more like Internet radio, where as a listener I can choose a station but not a specific song. These forms of streams get two revenue steams: a) song public performance rights (performance royalties - which ASCAP will collect for you) b) sound recording digital performance rights (note this is for the sound recording not the song - which SoundExchange collects (https://sxdirect.soundexchange.com/login/?next=/) SoundExchange, like the MLC, was set up by law and is similarly a non-profit NGO that is officially responsible for collecting and paying out these royalties. So, it seems like you probably should be prioritizing getting registered on the MLC, SoundExchange, and a distributor (like RouteNote or whatever one you choose). And, then, your life will be much easier and your wallet will be fatter. I will note that two potential revenue streams the above 4 organizations will not cover are a) sync revenues like from TV or movies, but if you ever place a song on a huge movie, you can research that, and b) if you want to try to monetize your lyrics (I wouldn't bother unless your songs become a lot more popular - if they do, you can research that) If this was helpful to you maybe add a NADRIP song to your playlist if you like it.
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Programming Placements is not a separate tab it's a section of the "Insights" tab that only appears when you have such placement. If you did have such a placement, you would also probably have gotten an email notification about it. As I mentioned, you should submit your next release to "Fresh Cuts" so you can see this section appear. I may be able to understand you when you are speaking provincial dialects, but most people here cannot. If your English is average, please go with that, because your Latin is nearly incomprehensible, very provincial. 😉
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LofiBluePearl, it appears to me you have the same thing as the example, except you don't seem to have any collaborations, so that section is blank. If you had any collaborations, something would show up in that section. Similarly, the Programming Placements will be blank unless/until any current editorial radio programs include one or more of your tracks. The only Programming Placement I have had a song on is "Fresh Cuts" and you can find a thread about how to get songs on "Fresh Cuts" on a different thread (https://community.pandora.com/t5/AMP-Support-Forum/Get-Your-New-Release-on-the-AMP-Fresh-Cut-Station/m-p/128448#M1734). Regarding photos, if you go to your "Profile" tab, you will be able to update your profile photo (and background photo) there, as well as your biography. As to the humanity of those of us on this site, you are free to your own opinions. However, if you are concerned with human issues, you might consider that Pandora only operates in the United States, where English is the common (ie polite) language.
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https://help.pandora.com/s/article/Add-Album-Art-Biography-and-Lyrics-to-your-Station-1519949294867?language=en_US
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Through your distributor. Once you make a change to your distribution, it will be re-sent to online stores / streaming sites like Pandora. It might take a couple/few weeks to get updated in all of them.
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