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Hearing out of place tracks on station

FrostLab
Diamond in the Rough

Station playing VERY wrong genre songs:

Sunday Appropriate(https://www.pandora.com/station/132923261364216789)

Out of place artists(or at least what's showing in the 'artist' spot) & Tracks:
The Grudge 2 (Film Score) - Track: Seme
Secession Studios & Secession Studios - Track: Dancing with Flames
Tadayoshi Makino - Track: FFVII REMAKE: The Drum
Adam Skorupa - Track: An Ominous Place
Wreck-It Ralph (Soundtrack) - Track: Rocket Fiasco (From "Wreck-It Ralph"/Score)
Yuka Kitamura - Track: Malenia, Blade of Miquella
Christopher Young - Track: Dead or Living?
Sean Aschafianski - Track: A Sacrifice
Gareth Coker - Track: Lost In The Misty Woods
Gavin Greenaway - Track: The Might of Rome
Two Steps from Hell & Thomas Bergerson - Track: He's The Giant
Jay Vincent & Michael Kramer - Track: Horns of Destruction
The Corpse Bride (Film Score) - Track: Casting a Spell
Assassin's Creed 2 (Original Game Soundtrack) - Track: Ezo in Florence
Benjamin Wallfisch - Track: Georgie, Meet Pennywise
Kevin Kiner - Track: Darth Maul Breaks Obi-Wan
World Of Warcraft: Cataclysm (Original Game Soundtrack) - Track: Depths Of Vashj'ir
The Lyndhurst Orchestra & Gavin Greenaway - Track: Am I Not Merciful?
World Of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (Original Game Soundtrack) - Track: Angrathar's Shadow
Ron Grainer - Track: Doctor Who 1987
Fallout New Vegas (Original Game Sountrack) - Track: Out of Business
Graeme Revell - Track: Rememberance
Spartacus: Blood And Sand (Film Score) - Track: Reunion Imminent/Tragic Reunion
Mark Ayres - Track: Main Theme (From "A Nightmare On Elm Street")
Natalie Holt - Track: TVA Inner Workings
Anthony Hopkins, Libera, The Lyndhurst Orchestra & Gavin Greenaway - Track: Zimmer: Dear Clarice

Yes, I was able to give these a Thumbs down. I refered to the stations thumbs-down list to give you this^.

As can be seen in the screenshots from my phone, these were all while listening via "My Station" mode

 

*ATTENTION*  I've also included some screenshots of songs that WERE supposed to be played & it played the piece from The Grudge 2 after playing many of the correct, Thumbs UP'd ones(visibly in the screenshots).  This is to give yall a quick idea of the kind of music the station is SUPPOSED to play.

Seriously guys, this screw up is almost as bad as listening to Christian hymns & then someone blasting Satanic Death Metal music over it.  COMPLETELY the opposite of what I've been led to believe is the point of the Music Genome Project. -_-

Screenshot_20221011-080202_Pandora.png<VERY Out of Place!

Screenshot_20221011-081202_Pandora.png<VERY Out of Place!Screenshot_20221011-090459_Pandora.png<SERIOUSLY SCARY MAN! W.T.H?!Screenshot_20221011-090526_Pandora.png<SUPPOSED TO PLAYScreenshot_20221011-090531_Pandora.png<SUPPOSED TO PLAYScreenshot_20221011-090534_Pandora.png<SUPPOSED TO PLAYScreenshot_20221011-090543_Pandora.png<SUPPOSED TO PLAYScreenshot_20221011-090547_Pandora.png<SUPPOSED TO PLAYScreenshot_20221011-090552_Pandora.png<SUPPOSED TO PLAYPandora Playing Ominous Among Hymns -_-.png<THIS one played WHILE I was constructing this post/response!

Labels (2)
106 Replies

thetooslowsloth
Local Performer

@AdamPandora You have an entire thread of customers experiecing this issue, and I too am experiencing this issue. The algorithm does *not* work the way you're saying it does. There is some kind of bug or mishap somewhere that causes songs liked on one station to appear on other stations that are not related. I have recently created several film score stations and lo and behold! suddenly film score music appears in the station ive been using for rock and indie for 5+ years. This is a problem that is driving loyal customers away. For the love of god, acknowledge that its a problem and make the tiniest of an effort to fix it.

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AdamPandora
Community Manager
Community Manager

@thetooslowsloth I moved your post over to this existing thread: Hearing out of place tracks on station

The next time it happens, please give the out of place track that plays a thumbs down and write us back with the following:

  • The name of the station you were listening to:
  • The date/time the out of place track(s) played
  • The name(s) of the out of place artist(s) on the station.
  • The title(s) of the out of place track(s) that played.
  • Were you able to give the out of place track(s) a Thumbs down?
  • Were you listening using a Pandora Mode like Crowd Faves, Discovery or Deep Cuts?

Also if possible, please grab a screenshot of the out of place track that plays, and send that in a reply to this message.

Thanks for the help!

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mattspringer
Opening Act

Jazz music plays in my classical station

Pandora no longer understands the difference between classical and jazz?

This didn't used to happen, but for the last several months, Pandora keeps shoving jazz tracks at me when in my Classical station.  I like jazz also but I have my own jazz station for that.  Even though I have intentionally not thumbed up any Gershwin or other classical composers who are jazzy, and I keep thumbing down the jazz tracks, Pandora won't give up.  In fact, it seems the more jazz tracks I give a thumbs down, the more frequently the classical station starts playing jazz.  And it's not hybrid-sounding music; it's pure combo jazz or jazz piano like Oscar Peterson. I'm batting away several a day; how do I get it to stop?  (This should be basic music genre recognition from Pandora's inception.)

(Please don't suggest the classical full performances station, hardly any of the tracks are full performances and the last time I tried it, I could not customize the station nearly as well as normal stations.)

Moderator Edit: Edited title for clarity

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AdamPandora
Community Manager
Community Manager

@mattspringer I'm happy to help look into this.

The next time it happens, please give the out of place track that plays a thumbs down and write us back with the following:

  • The name of the station you were listening to:
  • The date/time the out of place track(s) played
  • The name(s) of the out of place artist(s) on the station.
  • The title(s) of the out of place track(s) that played.
  • Were you able to give the out of place track(s) a Thumbs down?
  • Were you listening using a Pandora Mode like Crowd Faves, Discovery or Deep Cuts?

Also if possible, please grab a screenshot of the out of place track that plays, and send that in a reply to this message.

Thanks for the help!

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mattspringer
Opening Act

 

examples.jpg

now it is letting me upload an image

Here's another one, from a little while ago. Still listening to my own custom Classical station with no special modes, this one was 11:05 pm, 2/11/23. This one was Sophisticated Lady by Andrew Hill. Again, two screenshots are attached of it playing and then of me having given it the thumbs down. -Matt

I see my original response to you is reflected in this conversation, but subsequently replied by e-mail with several other examples that hit over the following day and I don't see any of those here.  I will fill those in directly in this website in just a little while.

On Feb 11, 2023, at 11:56 PM, Springer, Matt > wrote:

(I sent this earlier today but just realized it went to a "no-reply" address; this should be better)

I have not listen to that station much recently, but I've been listening this afternoon and it did not take long for the problem to occur. As you can see in the attached screenshots, it's the Andrea Pozza Trio, These Foolish Things, Saturday, February 11, 2:03 PM, in my own created classical station not in any particular mode, just normal. I have attached two screenshots, one while it was playing and one after I gave it the thumbs down. I should point out that this particular track is jazzy solo piano that is not quite as obviously jazz as when it usually happens, when it's absolute main stream typical jazz combo music or someone obvious like Oscar Peterson, but I will continue to send these as they occur.

Here's a slightly edited compilation of all of the reports over the weekend that were done via e-mail, of which only the first one registered here.   There are 6 of them listed here in chronological order.  I attached the screenshots in pairs, before and after thumbing down, in my original messages, but this website is not allowing me to insert an image here; it says I do not have permission to upload images.  How can I get them to you?

Example #1:  I have not listen to that station much recently, but I've been listening this afternoon and it did not take long for the problem to occur. As you can see in the attached screenshots, it's the Andrea Pozza Trio, These Foolish Things, Saturday, February 11, 2:03 PM, in my own created classical station not in any particular mode, just normal. I have attached two screenshots, one while it was playing and one after I gave it the thumbs down. I should point out that this particular track is jazzy solo piano that is not quite as obviously jazz as when it usually happens, when it's absolute main stream typical jazz combo music or someone obvious like Oscar Peterson, but I will continue to send these as they occur.

Example #2: Here's another one, from a little while ago. Still listening to my own custom Classical station with no special modes, this one was 11:05 pm, 2/11/23. This one was Sophisticated Lady by Andrew Hill. Again, two screenshots are attached of it playing and then of me having given it the thumbs down.

Example #3: Here's another one that just occurred; this one is about as obviously jazz as one can imagine. Still my own custom Classical station in no special mode, 1:42 pm (these are all PST), 2/12/23, Steve Allee Trio, Somewhere. Again, screenshots are attached of when it started playing and after I thumbed it down.

Example #4: Another one, this time a jazz guitar combo. I GUESS it could be mistaken for something a tiny bit similar to classical guitar, but it's a real stretch! It's Joe Pass, whom Wikipedia describes as "...was an American jazz guitarist. Pass is well known for his work stemming from numerous collaborations with pianist Oscar Peterson and vocalist Ella Fitzgerald, and is often esteemed as one of the most notable jazz guitarists of the 20th century." Body And Soul is the title. 2/12/23, 6:41 pm PST, my Classical station with no special modes, two screenshots attached. 

Example #5: aaaaaand again, this time it's Take Five from Dave Brubeck, one of the most recognizable jazz hits in history, playing on my Classical station with no special modes, 2/12/23, 7:06 pm PST. Screen shots attached.  I think I can probably stop now; the problem has been very clearly and obviously demonstrated. What is wrong and how can it be fixed?

Example #6: I know I said I was finished, but this one came up so soon after the last one that I'm including it also, and here's the problem: it's happening more and more often. The more I thumb-down jazz tracks in my classical station, the more jazz tracks the station tries to play. It's backwards. This is Bill Charlap Trio, Dream, an obvious jazz combo track. 2/12/23, 7:32 pm PST, classical station with no special mode, screen shots attached again. (This is really getting ridiculous.)

(And I actually got another one after that but decided to stop submitted them at that point.)



Matt Springer

Moderator Edit: Removed Personal Info, Merged posts

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mattspringer
Opening Act

Here's one more piece of potentially useful info: I usually play my classical station directly in the Pandora mobile app and stream to my home Sonos speakers, but it's also possible to play Pandora directly from the Sonos app.  I tried that this morning and it only took 3 or 4 tracks for a jazz track to show up: today 2/13/23, 12:32 pm PST, Todd Hildreth Trio, The Nearness Of You.  I'm reporting that here since it was using the different app, and will stop reporting them for now; hopefully you can make sense of all this.

example from Sonos app.jpeg

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mattspringer
Opening Act

Wednesday night, 2/15/23:  I'm curious is something was changed as a result of my reports over the last few days, because I've been listening to my classical station for several hours and no jazz tracks have been played today.

ok, ignore that; I was curious and started skipping ahead and did encounter one jazz track, although it's been less common than for the past several days.

Moderator Edit: Merged posts

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AdamPandora
Community Manager
Community Manager

@mattspringer Thanks for following up with this information.

I reported your feedback to our engineering team, and they were able to discover the following:

A majority of these out of place tracks resulted from you listening to your station in Deep Cuts Mode on from 2023-02-04 - 2023-02-10. During this time, you gave a number of thumbs up ratings, so Pandora is giving them more Deep Cuts as a result. I recommend going through your thumbs up ratings, and removing any tracks that you feel do not fit the sound you are looking for on this station.

Additionally, you reported the following out of place tracks in your previous messages:

  • Sophisticated Lady by Andrew Hill
    • played from seed: Symphony No. 5 in D Major, IRV. 86: I. Preludio by André Previn 
    • this track actually appears to be okay on your station, however if you feel it is out of place, you can remove this seed to avoid any future issues.
  • These Foolish Things by Andrea Pozza 
    • played from seed: Symphony No. 5 in B-Flat Major, Op. 100: II. Allegro marcato by André Previn
  • Somewhere by Steve Allee Trio
    • played from seed: Symphony No. 5 in B-Flat Major, Op. 100: III. Adagio by André Previn
  • Body And Soul by Joe Pass
    • played from seed: Symphony No. 5 in B-Flat Major, Op. 100: III. Adagio by André Previn
  • Take Five by The Dave Brubeck Quartet
    • played due to a seed you added for Claude Bolling which I see has since been removed
  • Dream by Bill Charlap Trio
    • played from seed: Symphony No. 5 in B-Flat Major, Op. 100: III. Adagio by André Previn

To resolve the out of place tracks, I would also recommend removing the above seeds since they are what a majority of the out out of place tracks you reported are playing from.

You can delete the bad seeds by editing your station.

To delete that bad seed from a computer:

  1. From My Collection, visit your station list.
  2. Click on the name of the station you'd like to edit. This will take you directly to the station's "backstage page." 
  3. Hover the mouse over the station seed you'd like to remove and select Delete.

To delete that bad seed from a mobile device:

  1. From My Collection, visit your station list.
  2. Tap on the name of the station you'd like to edit.
  3. This will start your station, so tap the the Thumb icon in the upper right corner of your screen to continue to the station's backstage page.
  4. From the station's backstage page, tap on the Edit icon (the small pencil to the left of the play icon) to edit your station, and scroll down to Station Created From.
  5. Remove this "bad seed" by tapping the small (X) beside that item.

Hope this helps!

mattspringer
Opening Act

Thanks Adam, this is really interesting, and both shows the solution and points out a problem for Pandora.  I had already gone through to check for thumbed up stations on the classical station list that could be causing problems, and did find one or two accidentally thumbed up stations and removed them a while ago (presumably Claude Bolling was one because I wouldn't have intentionally called that classical).  But Andre Previn presents a problem for Pandora in general that I hope you can fix.  I'm impressed that you were able to track this cause down, and I'll remove those thumbs up, but please pass along to those who work on the algorithms that Andre Previn is primarily known as one of the great classical music orchestra conductors (LA Philharmonic, London Symphony Orchestra, Royal Philharmonic, etc.).  He also writes and performs jazz, and every now and then, an Andre Previn jazz track would show up on the classical station and it was entirely understandable, and I would thumb it down.  But those various tracks that you listed, movements of symphonies "by" Andre Previn, are not by him at all; they are orchestra performances of classical music conducted by Previn.  Classical music is not Pandora's strong point, but I strongly encourage you folks to work with your algorithms to decouple music WRITTEN BY Andre Previn from music CONDUCTED BY Andre Previn.  You just need to make sure Previn is listed in the conductor field in your metadata for his classical performances, and in the composer field for  his jazz stuff.  "Artist" doesn't really have a clear meaning in this case.  Hope that helps!

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mattspringer
Opening Act

new imagesnew imagesHi, I'd like to reopen this discussion.  I followed the advice to remove those song seeds with Andre Previn conducting, and the problem got much better.  However, I've still had several jazz tracks pop into the classical station, just not as often, and I wonder if you can also identify what cause these to occur:

2/21/23, 6:11 pm Grooveyard by Phineas Newborn Jr. Trio

2/28/23, 12:42 pm, Song for my Father by David Benoit

3/3/23, 12:21 am, I Couldn't Sleep a Wink Last Night by Oscar Peterson

 

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AdamPandora
Community Manager
Community Manager

@mattspringer Those tracks were recommended by this seed that was added as variety to your station:

  • Poco Allegretto From Symphony #3 In F Major by Ramsey Lewis:

Screen Shot 2023-03-03 at 4.20.17 AM.png

I recommend removing that seed as well to avoid any future issues with this.

Hope this helps!

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mattspringer
Opening Act

Interesting, thanks!

That's bizarre, I just looked up that track and listened to it, and don't recall ever hearing it; it's an obviously jazz version of a movement from Brahms 3rd Symphony.  I wouldn't have added that intentionally so I must have done it by mistake somehow.  Thanks for ferreting that out.

Moderator Edit: Removed Personal Info

TheWitch
Local Performer

Why does pandora keep playing genres I have never liked I always thumbs down? Forcing crappy music in my ear 

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AdamPandora
Community Manager
Community Manager

@TheWitch I moved your post over to this existing thread: Hearing out of place tracks on station

The next time it happens, please give the out of place track that plays a thumbs down and write us back with the following:

  • The name of the station you were listening to:
  • The date/time the out of place track(s) played
  • The name(s) of the out of place artist(s) on the station.
  • The title(s) of the out of place track(s) that played.
  • Were you able to give the out of place track(s) a Thumbs down?
  • Were you listening using a Pandora Mode like Crowd Faves, Discovery or Deep Cuts?

Also if possible, please grab a screenshot of the out of place track that plays, and send that in a reply to this message.

Thanks for the help!

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Martha-bun
Underground

I don't know if there's a newer version of this topic... The songs bleeding over to other stations is happening to me. Like another user, I'm thinking about canceling my subscription. Frank Sinatra & Benny Goodman show up on my Three Dog Night. Lots of bleeding between all of mine. I'm afraid to hit thumbs down in case it removes the song from the correct station.

Another problem is, I'm getting head-banging heavy metal, which I keep deleting, but it keeps showing up. Not good when you're playing the station for a bunch of people! It's offensive. 

AdamPandora
Community Manager
Community Manager

@Martha-bun I moved your post over to this existing thread: Hearing out of place tracks on station

The next time a heavy metal track plays on one of your stations, please give it a thumbs down and write us back with the following:

  • The name of the station you were listening to:
  • The date/time the out of place track(s) played
  • The name(s) of the out of place artist(s) on the station.
  • The title(s) of the out of place track(s) that played.
  • Were you able to give the out of place track(s) a Thumbs down?
  • Were you listening using a Pandora Mode like Crowd Faves, Discovery or Deep Cuts?

Also if possible, please grab a screenshot of the out of place track that plays, and send that in a reply to this message.

Thanks for the help!

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Roaryrocks
Local Performer

I have a station that plays music within the 90’ to 2000’s time period. Music like My Chemical Romance, Blink 182, Red Hot Chili Peppers. It was fine earlier today and then suddenly started playing modern rap, modern pop, classic rock, and FOR THE 100TH TIME I DO NOT WANT TO LISTEM TO COUNTRY MUSIC! Have had a solid hour of thumbing down music not fit for my station and it won’t go back to how it was. Pandora is way too expensive to have an algorithm THIS bad.

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AdamPandora
Community Manager
Community Manager

@Roaryrocks I moved your post over to this existing thread: Hearing out of place tracks on station

The next time it happens, please give the out of place track that plays a thumbs down and write us back with the following:

  • The name of the station you were listening to:
  • The date/time the out of place track(s) played
  • The name(s) of the out of place artist(s) on the station.
  • The title(s) of the out of place track(s) that played.
  • Were you able to give the out of place track(s) a Thumbs down?
  • Were you listening using a Pandora Mode like Crowd Faves, Discovery or Deep Cuts?

Also if possible, please grab a screenshot of the out of place track that plays, and send that in a reply to this message.

Thanks for the help!

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Roaryrocks
Local Performer

I can send you a screenshot of my thumb downs if you’d like

FB9BB206-A23E-4B3D-8C47-2B70DBBB9EE7.png

 

here’s a small example. This was roughly between 1pm and 2pm EST today

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Roaryrocks
Local Performer

Fixed it. I removed all thumbs up and seeds I added today and it went back. Adding AFI should not give me classic rock modern rap and country dude. Your algorithm is really getting music all mixed up.

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